Issue 6: Old / New / Next
The Art of Preservation in the Digital Age
One of the biggest challenges facing media artists today is the preservation of the work. That work needs to be restored, touched up and protected in such a way that it will last over time. With rapidly evolving technology, however, it’s becoming necessary to regularly maintain and put systems in place to keep tech-art alive and functioning as it should. As digital artists, how do we plan for software to be archived and preserved to be shown one hundred years from now? Can a digital sculpture be re-touched in the same way you would restore a Caravaggio? Or, for that matter, the roof of the Sistine Chapel?
In 2019, I took over as the host of a podcast called “State of the Art”, a weekly podcast about the intersection of art and technology. On the podcast, I speak with artists, technologists, curators, and inventors about all things art and tech. For one of my first episodes, I called up Morgan Kessler at LACMA and asked if she would be one of my first guests to discuss the preservation of the museum’s collection of Time-Based art.
Bios
Gabriel Barcia-Colombo (ITP’07) is a mixed media artist whose work focuses on collections, memorialization and the act of leaving one’s digital imprint for the next generation. His work takes the form of video sculptures, immersive performances, large scale projections and vending machines that sell human DNA. His work plays upon this modern exigency in our culture to chronicle, preserve and wax nostalgic, an idea which Barcia-Colombo renders visually by “collecting” human portraits on video. He is full-time faculty at ITP.
Morgan Kessler has been working with museums and artists as an Audio Visual Specialist since 2008. She joined LACMA in 2012 as a Time-Based Media Technician in the Gallery Media department. In her current role as Media Collections Manager, she is charged with the care of the museum’s collection of Time-Based artworks.
Explore these References From the Podcast:
Lacma Arts Center, The Los Angeles County Museum of Art Media and Technology Lab. Specializes in the preservation, restoration, and exhibition of New Media Art.
Nam June Paik, Nam June Paik was a Korean American media artist widely considered to be the father of Video Art & Installation.
Dan Flavin, Dan Flavin was an artist specializing in minimalist light art, specifically exploring the medium through the use of fluorescent light fixtures.
Damien Hirst, is a British artist who was particularly active in the 1990s. The podcast references his piece “The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living” which was composed of a tiger shark preserved in formaldehyde. It was of particular interest to this episode since the shark had to be replaced in 2006 due to the deterioration of the original shark.
Mungo Thomson, Mungo Thomson is a multimedia artist based out of Los Angeles. The podcast references his piece “Composition For Marimba”, which is an iPhone based art piece that generates an endless combination of playing cards and Marimba tones.
Full Transcript
Gabe BC:
Hey, this is Gabe Barcia-Colombo. You can call me Gabe BC, and welcome to the State of the Art podcast. If this is your first time listening, this is a podcast about the intersection of art and technology. Each week I’m going to interview another artist, creator, android, robot, avatar, CEO or museum specialist, about the ever changing relationship between art and tech. For me this is especially interesting because I myself am a digital artist, who works with and teaches technology. One of the challenges facing media artists today is the concept of preservation. Any work of art needs to be restored, touched up and preserved to last over time. So when you make a work of art using laser projectors, old TVs, or the latest augmented reality apps, this becomes increasingly difficult to maintain.
My guest today tackles just these sort of problems. Morgan Kessler is the media collections manager at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. She basically cares for and preserves the museums’ collection of time based media artworks. Morgan, thank you so much for joining me today.
Morgan Kessler:
Thank you for having me.
Gabe BC:
So how does somebody become a conservator of media art? Like, do you have a background in this? Or is it something you just sort of stumbled into one day?
Morgan Kessler:
There’s definitely a lot of ways but yeah, I stumbled into it. I got my undergraduate in film production from Boston University, and I really wanted to do that. So I moved to LA and kind of hated it. But I did some post house work for commercials and that was fun, editing. I tried some production design, all sorts of stuff. And then I ended up working for this man, Peter Kirby. And he worked a lot with artists and museums. And I really liked that work and I learned a lot. And through that I ended up coming to LACMA as a exhibitions installation, specifically for time based media. And then through that, I ended up being the media collections manager.
Gabe BC:
And how long have you been at LACMA?
Morgan Kessler:
Started in 2012 as the exhibitions tech, and I think 2015, I think is when I started in this role.
Gabe BC:
Nice. And what was the department like when you first began? I assume it changes over time as new technology becomes available.
Morgan Kessler:
There have been some huge changes. So it used to be that AV was all one. So the people who did the installations were also the people who ran the live events, which is-
Gabe BC:
Wow.
Morgan Kessler:
… just a different skill set.
Gabe BC:
Yeah, totally.
Morgan Kessler:
So then when I came in they had just split that into sort of live events, and then what they called, I don’t remember. Time based media at the time was the department, which then got broke down even further. So now I’m under collections management. And then we have Patrick Heilmann does the gallery media, and he does a great job and he and I work very closely, especially when it comes to documentation and just checking in about what we’ve received, is that going to work and so we work very closely.
Gabe BC:
So you’re responsible for quite a bit, actually, it sounds like.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. So I’m in charge of managing the permanent collection of time based media artworks.
Gabe BC:
And what are some of the biggest factors in terms of digital conservation? Like, when you acquire a new piece at LACMA, what are you specifically responsible for?
Morgan Kessler:
So the first thing that comes in is we send out a questionnaire. It’s a time based media and installation questionnaire. And that’s where we try to get a lot of information about what the piece is, what’s critical to it, especially if there’s multiple components. Can they all be shown separately? Do they have to be shown together? And we also ask for some nitty gritty information like, what are you going to send as your archival master, and we tell them why we prefer 10 bit uncompressed. We tell them our preferences. So once I get that form, and then I can look through it and know any red flags or questions from the get go. And then we get the media that I actually watch every version and make sure it’s okay. And I would say 30 to 40% have some sort of questions or errors or just need some further information about which I was surprised it was so high but-
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
What kind of errors are you talking about when you say there’s errors in the way that they’re played back?
Morgan Kessler:
Sure, sometimes it’s the, it’ll flash to like a green digital artifact, which means something happened during transfers, something happened during output, especially when you have these long ones that are multiple channels. It’s a lot of work to watch them and make sure they look how you want. I also noticed a lot of subtitled typos. Or I’ll notice if they provide us three versions, you know, archival duplication exhibition, maybe they have different run times, maybe one has audio and the other ones don’t. So those kind of questions are ones that I like to really get them nailed down while we’re having this great line to the artist and while we can still get quick answers. So really just trying to get as good of an understanding. Do we have exactly what we’re going to need at the time of acquisition rather than waiting till it’s time to install it? And then you have some nasty little surprises.
Gabe BC:
Right. So once you’ve acquired a piece, how often do you have to update or maintain that piece? I mean, I assume you have pieces that were probably made on LaserDisc or something like that, right? And now we’re working with completely different medium. We’re working with digital files on a hard drive. Is there a certain timeframe or a time period you have to update these projects?
Morgan Kessler:
Well, sometimes what we do is we use this cataloging system called TMS. And so one thing that we’ve sort of customized it to is attributes. So one thing we can do is tag it LaserDisc, tag it to the media, we tag the Codex, we tag all sorts of things, so that we can look over those and say, “Oh, yeah, we really need to do those now.” I mean, LaserDiscs, yes, we’ve been digitizing those. Anything that’s a tape needs to get digitized, as soon as possible. We have some that we just can’t afford to digitize right now, like HD cams. We don’t have a deck. So those kind of have to get on hold. But it really depends, there are so many. The software artworks really need to get checked annually to make sure they’re still working and running. The QuickTimes. I like to just check the check sums annually too.
Gabe BC:
And so you know, as an artist who makes work with technology, I’m constantly thinking about this. Is the artwork different if you’re changing the medium that it’s saved on? Like, if you are updating something from let’s say, an old DVD and bringing it into a QuickTime file, would you consider that or do artists consider that a different work?
Morgan Kessler:
Usually, no. Usually No. And I think part of that also has to do with just the nature of it. If it’s a DVD we could just copy it. Does that mean it’s new additions? It’s such a complicated question.
Gabe BC:
Yeah-
Morgan Kessler:
Often, we find that what makes the work is the certificate of authenticity.
Gabe BC:
Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So just like how somebody could have a reproduction of a photograph, but if it’s signed by the original artists that would be what makes it the original.
Morgan Kessler:
Yes.
Gabe BC:
Let’s talk about a specific work. So I was at LACMA a couple years back, and I saw this piece called Video Flag Z by Nam June Paik, the video artist, which is a giant piece of 84 TV sets with looping video content that are all stacked and arrange. So it’s sort of like an animation overload that looks somewhat like an American flag.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
And this is a work that LACMA bought right? In the 90s, I believe.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, I think it was even the 80s.
Gabe BC:
Oh, nice. Yeah, it was created 1986 I think, so I didn’t it was acquired back then. Could you tell me sort of like what kind of upkeep is required to maintain a work like Video Flag Z?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. And this one was a really interesting case study. And I know our Conservation Department has also published a lot of information too. So, if you’re interested in the nitty gritty, you can go ahead and Google that but. They did a lot of work because it was a whole bunch of small CRTs. And so they were starting to die. So at the time, they decided what they were going to do, is cut off the front of all these monitors and actually replace the CRT monitors in the back. About the same size about the same everything and just put the facade of the old monitors on, so that it starts so that it looks like how it was.
Gabe BC:
So CRT is, for those of you don’t know CRT is cathode ray tubes. So it’s those old big bulky TV sets that you had in the 80s. So they would cut the-
Morgan Kessler:
And when you turn them on they go, bong.
Gabe BC:
Right. Which is part of the work right? Like do you see that to quality in the work.
Morgan Kessler:
And there’s a, there’s an electric feel to it too. So if you stand in front of a flat screen, you don’t feel the same as you do feel in front of a big CRT. In front of a CRT you almost feel like static electricity on your skin.
Gabe BC:
Right. And so these started to die after a certain amount of time, right? They burn out. The tubes break.
Morgan Kessler:
Yes.
Gabe BC:
And so you replace, you cut off the front of the piece and you replace the tube inside? Or you replace the entire TV itself?
Morgan Kessler:
The entire monitor. The entire thing.
Gabe BC:
Wow. And was that something that you discussed with Nam June pike before he passed away in 2005 I believe or 2006?
Morgan Kessler:
It was very, very lucky because and I don’t know who it was at LACMA but someone had the foresight to get Nam June Pike to sign a release to allow LACMA conservation to do, use their best judgment for conserving the peace. So sort of an open ended, yes, I allow LACMA to make these decisions about how they want to maintain and preserve the piece.
Gabe BC:
Wow. Do you stock the replacement parts at LACMA for a piece like this?
Morgan Kessler:
Not anymore. So what’s interesting now is I know that the monitor plastics are starting to weep a little bit. And so now if we reinstall it now, it’s another question of how we’re going to replace the plastic on those. Because the monitors are still working, but the actual facade that was taken off with the plastic is starting melt a little bit. So now it’ll be another one.
Gabe BC:
Well, you see you can’t win here with digital art preservation, right? There’s always something new to worry about.
Morgan Kessler:
You can’t because they’re not making CRT like that anymore. So it’s just getting more and more expensive and more and more rare and at some point, they’ll have to be some bigger decisions made, you know. Can these be shown with NoN CRTs? Or maybe the piece can’t be shown if we just don’t have the equipment.
Gabe BC:
Right. And some artists are fine with that, right? Like, I know, Dan Flavin, some of those light pieces that he created, were designed to die after a certain amount of time. So it’s kind of interesting to think about as an artist, do you want your piece to be ephemeral? Do you want it to maybe just be a one off thing? Do you want it to live forever? So I guess it’s interesting to make those choices ahead of time rather than just to focus on the creation of the work. Now you have to think about how that work is going to live on after you.
Morgan Kessler:
And I enjoy being conservation and letting the artist decide that.
Gabe BC:
That’s nice. They it as long as there’s instructions from the artists, right?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, yeah.
Gabe BC:
I was thinking about a non media art piece that Damien Hirst shark piece, the physical impossibility of death in the mind of someone living, which for those of you don’t know, it’s a shark floating in formaldehyde. But after a certain amount of time, the shark started to degrade and was no longer as menacing as when it started. And that’s kind of the point of the pieces that you’re staring at this scary looking shark, but if the shark is missing an eye or drooping. So they ended up replacing that shark. And so I have a lot of discussions with other artists about what is that the same artwork, if you replace the shark. And so you’re saying with media art, it is the same. It’s more about the concept then the physical part of the piece?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, I would say so. I mean, you don’t see … So if you’re going to take a DVD and you’re going to make it a QuickTime, you’re not downgrading, it’ll still look the same. It’s not like you’re going to put a different shark in there. You know. It is a totally different way of thinking because it’s not, you wouldn’t take painting and repaint it, you know, and say, “Okay, this is it. Well, it’s made the same with the same materials.” It’s, very different. It’s very different.
Gabe BC:
But you would take a painting and you would touch it up, right? Like those people that-
Morgan Kessler:
You could touch it up but you couldn’t totally replace it.
Gabe BC:
Right. That’s how you end up with one of those problems like that picture of the painting of the Christ that was touched up poorly. Do you remember that piece?
Morgan Kessler:
The monkey Jesus.
Gabe BC:
Yes.
Morgan Kessler:
Oh, the monkey Jesus is the best.
Gabe BC:
Have you had any monkey Jesus problems in media art? I guess it’s harder to tell. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to leave … I’m not even sure what the analogy would be. Like, would you leave artifacts that weren’t there originally, you know? How, would that translate to a digital work? I don’t know.
Morgan Kessler:
I went to a talk and Glenn Phillips was talking about this one, and now I can’t remember what the actual piece was. But it’s a black and white piece. And it had been shown in one gallery with the black levels really low. In the next gallery they cranked it up so that you could see what was happening. And when the artist isn’t around, who we look to in that case is curatorial, because they have more of a background of understanding the piece and making that particular decision. But yes, you can definitely mess it up. Let’s say someone goes in and decides to take something that’s been meant to have really crazy colors. Maybe they went in and made them all broadcast.
Gabe BC:
Right. Now that’s a great analogy. That makes total sense to me. So let’s talk about another work. You recently worked on a piece called composition for marimba by Mungo Thompson. And just to describe that piece, it’s an iPhone app, and it’s an iPhone, the sculpture is an actual iPhone on a stand. And on that phone is a deck of cards, and each deck you know, each card is shuffled through. So you see like two of spades, five of clubs, jack of diamonds and it keeps shuffling through an infinite amount of shuffles. And for each card, there’s sound from a marimba.
Gabe BC:
So yeah, for the listeners who are unfamiliar with a marimba, it’s sort of similar to a xylophone but much larger. So it plays with each card a different note. And what’s really fascinating about the pieces that the number of possible arrangements in the deck of cards is so astronomically large, that the program will never run through all the possible combinations. I guess not even within the Earth’s lifespan. This is what the artist says.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
So for something like this piece, what does the museum have ownership over? Is it the physical sculpture? Is it the program that goes with it? Is it both? And how do you preserve something like this?
Morgan Kessler:
So this is something that my colleague Joey Heinen and I worked a lot on. We got the physical iPhone, and the artist also provided us with the Xcode project. And Xcode is just an application that you can use to create mobile apps. So he gave us the Xcode project with also assets. So that was really great. And this was a very interesting piece because at the time, we just didn’t have the manpower or the hours or anything to really check that the Xcode was working. So the piece went immediately on display, and worked great. It’s a beautiful piece, and then it went back into storage. And then when Joey and I decided to take a look at it again, we took it out, popped it open and the app wouldn’t launch anymore.
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
It was very scary. He said, “Oh no, what happened?” And so then we guessed that probably what had happened was the operating system had upgraded without our knowledge, and maybe it wasn’t working anymore. So then what we ended up doing is then opening the Xcode project, which was its own hurdles. And this had only been two years in the collection, only two years had passed. And the amount of Xcode updates required us to install not only, you know, two generations back, get it up and working so that you can migrate this language Swift to the newest one. So it required a lot of leapfrogging between programs.
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
And so once we were able to get it up and running, we looked at the source code, we tried to understand exactly what it was doing, then we were lucky enough to have an interview with the artist. And I really think it’s important have the interview with artists after you’ve already delved into the piece, because then you can have really specific questions. If you’re just having an interview without looking at the nitty gritty I mean, it’s just conceptual, not really preservation. So we had this great interview with him. We asked What does random mean? Are these always linked together? So we got into some really great specifics. And it was very interesting, too, because the reason the app had stopped working, was because the apple developer license expired.
Gabe BC:
Oh, wow. That’s a problem that anybody who develops apps runs into right?
Morgan Kessler:
Yes.
Gabe BC:
You just have to maintain that. So does the museum have to maintain that license? Or is it on the artist to maintain at this point?
Morgan Kessler:
Well, now it’ll be on us, the museum.
Gabe BC:
And is that part of the original agreement with the artists? Like, oh, you need to maintain this apple developer license as well, like when you buy this work?
Morgan Kessler:
And this is why it’s kind of the Wild West and you make a lot of mistakes. And then you just can adjust your protocols and your best practices and that’s the only way you can really … It’s so hard to foresee these things. The artist it took him by surprise too because he said every single edition stopped working at the same time.
Gabe BC:
Wow. That must be a nightmare for him.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, right? It’s scary, scary all around. It’s, yeah, very easy for things to go wrong digitally. So yeah, we got it up and running. And I think what really makes this particular field unique is that it’s really important that you have the ability to rebuild it. Because we know an iPhone 6 is not going to be around forever. Is it even going to be accessible five years from now, you know? How long is the iPhone 6 going to be working? So we got into the same kind of information. If we’re able to do like we did with Nam June pike, could we figure out a facade that looks like the iPhone 6, but has some other hardware in it? Can we go to an Android? Doesn’t have to be an apple? You know, and all those sort of questions which were really, really good to clarify with the artist. And you know, what do we do when there are no more mobile phones we all communicate with retinal phone or something?
Gabe BC:
Telepathically, right?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Gabe BC:
So, did you end up rebuilding that iPhone? Like did you have a case that’s not a true iPhone now there? Or is that just something you’re planning on doing in the future?
Morgan Kessler:
That’s something, we want to know that we have the ability to do when we need to do it.
Gabe BC:
Wow. And so the artist doesn’t necessarily demand that it has to be an iPhone in the piece?
Morgan Kessler:
No. No.
Gabe BC:
I wonder how that would work for something like a virtual reality piece. Where the Oculus, maybe the piece is sold linked to the fact that this is an Oculus that was purchased by Facebook at that time. Like, there are pieces, I’m thinking of a friend of mine, Sarah Rothberg, who made a work that’s just about that called Memory Place. But you know, sometimes the technologies is integral to the meaning of the work too.
Morgan Kessler:
Yes.
Gabe BC:
Do you have your-
Morgan Kessler:
And in this case, it was because he said, you know, the iPhone is so ubiquitous. It’s something that’s so familiar to us. So, 20 years from now, when the iPhone is no longer in everyone’s hand like that, maybe there’s something else that would make it more true.
Gabe BC:
And with the idea of randomness, were you then reprogramming randomness into this app? Or was the artists responsible for that as well?
Morgan Kessler:
All the code was from the artist, but we wanted to know what random meant. Does random mean, okay, it goes through one sequence, it can never do that sequence again? Or does it mean and what it had turned out to be. No way. It’s so random it could do that sequence again, I think.
Gabe BC:
Right. Right. That makes sense. So if you want to collect this kind of art, let’s say you’re not a museum, you don’t have people like you. Were going to do all this research for you. If your art collector, what’s important to ask an artist when you want to buy a media artwork?
Morgan Kessler:
I would say asking about upkeep like a long term, what’s going to happen and you know, is the artist … I don’t know if the artist would be available to constantly do upgrades for free, but maybe you can build something into the contract like, if I need something new after 10 years, maybe just for the cost of materials or something.
Gabe BC:
Right, yeah, that makes sense. And do you ever work with artists where they have a lasting relationship with the museum where maybe you say over the next three years, they’re going to be part of the preservation of this work?
Morgan Kessler:
No. I mean, well, that’s not true. There are definitely some artists who have given us things with the caveat that we are not allowed to do the preservation on them.
Gabe BC:
Oh, wow.
Morgan Kessler:
Because they want to keep them, keep all that to themselves. And I understand that. And, you know, honestly, my job is to respect the artist wishes, keep the work going as long as we can, but also respecting the wishes and not making big decisions for them too.
Gabe BC:
Have you run into like, seriously tempermental media artists before?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
I won’t ask you for too much detail on who those, although I’m really dying to know who those specific media artists are. But do you have any like scenarios you could, tangentially mentioned? Not with names but, just situations that you’ve had where it’s been really difficult to deal with someone because of the way they wanted their technology to be preserved or modified.
Morgan Kessler:
I would say the only time I’ve had really issues is during, when I was working on the installation team.
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
Like, yeah. And there was some, like frustrations that you take out on the installers.
Gabe BC:
Oh, no, that’s terrible.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. But I mean … What can you do?
Gabe BC:
So can you speak to-
Morgan Kessler:
Most people have been very, very friendly.
Gabe BC:
Yeah. And I’m glad. I’m glad to hear that. Can you speak to the importance of checking digital media? Like you’re talking about looking at artifacts and a piece? I’m thinking specifically of your anecdote about an Isaac Julian piece that you worked on recently?
Morgan Kessler:
Yes, yes. So, previous to my time in this position, we had a whole bunch of things that came in. We’re putting the closet and then just sort of left for when we needed them. And Isaac Julian had his piece coming up, Play Time which is actually installed right now at LACMA and it’s a very cool piece. And so we had this hard drive, the media had already been migrated, the checksums matched. And the checksums is just something that the computer can go bit by bit and double check to make sure that the same. So when I transferred off the hard drive, it’s exactly the same on my digital storage system. So, when we went to install it we found that this QuickTime was filled with digital artifacts.
Gabe BC:
How did that happen? Do you know?
Morgan Kessler:
And it’s so hard to know because I don’t know if it was actually checked when it came in. Maybe it came in like that. I’m guessing that it’s how it had to be. But or maybe it just bit rot. I don’t know.
Gabe BC:
What is bit rot? I’ve never heard a bit rot before.
Morgan Kessler:
Digitally, there is something goes wrong in it.
Gabe BC:
Okay, and how can that happen just from like, dusting a hard drive? Or is it more of a-
Morgan Kessler:
I don’t know. I don’t know how it happens. Actually, that’s a good question, but not one I can answer.
Gabe BC:
Bit rot it’s a great name for heavy metal band though anyway so, you know, that down here.
Morgan Kessler:
Exactly. But yeah, so that was a really frustrating situation. And if you’re going to be acquiring artworks, it’s so crucial that you don’t just acquire one copy. Now in this case, we did also have an LTO tape that we could restore from, and we were in contact with the artist and they were able to send another version.
Gabe BC:
And what’s an LTO tape for those that don’t know?
Morgan Kessler:
It’s a magnetic tape that you need a special player to read. And since its magnetic, it can last a long time. It’s great for archival, but like everything in this world, it really needs a lot of maintenance.
Gabe BC:
Right. And so you worked on this piece Play Time. It’s now at LACMA. It’s showing right now. And could you describe like, just visually what that kind of artifact would look like? Like if we were, this is a video piece right? Play Time?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
And if we were to watch it, what kind of things would we see on the frame?
Morgan Kessler:
UT colored lines through it, so that just plop on and off.
Gabe BC:
Right. And the way you’d fix that is by re digitizing the piece?
Morgan Kessler:
This we just got a different … Since it was a QuickTime, you can’t digitize. I mean, you don’t digitize from LTO. It’s kind of functions as a hard drive except it’s tape.
Gabe BC:
Oh, okay. That makes sense.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, yeah you don’t actually, it didn’t come in on a tape that you would traditionally digitize from, yeah.
Gabe BC:
That makes sense. And where-
Morgan Kessler:
So we got replacement QuickTime.
Gabe BC:
… where are all these files I wonder? Like is there some sort of secret underground bunker at LACMA where you’re keeping all these hard drives and, you know, thousands of old pieces of digital art are being held there? Or where’s everything kept?
Morgan Kessler:
It was like that. And then when I came in, I created our digital storage solution. So we’re going to have, we have raid, which is a multi hard drive can fit in this one piece of equipment. So ours has eight bays, they call it within this one enclosure. So if two of those die you can swap them out and you won’t lose any information. And this is kind of our working drive that we can pull from things. We also keep the original carriers off site at cold storage. And then we’re using this company called Digital Bedrock, who then will put our masters onto LTO tape and do all that maintenance work. And they are very affordable. If you’re looking, if you’re an artist looking for someone to help you preserve your digital files.
Gabe BC:
Now, that’s great. That’s a great resource to let everybody know about. You know, also, I think a lot about documentation of the work, like even more so than the actual work itself. Today we see everything on the internet. We see documentation of these installations. Like when I was looking for Video Flag Z, I mean, if somebody wants to see it, all they have to do is type in Video Flag Z on Google and we find, you know, 50 videos of it nowadays. Is there discussion about how the documentation is almost more important than the work itself? Is that possibly true?
Morgan Kessler:
No. I mean, we have not had that discussion, but that’s because our focus is really on preserving it. But I know that we have definitely these pieces that are going to end at one point. So yeah, then what will it be? Will it be the video documentation of it?
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
Can you show that? Yeah, it’s something I wonder about too.
Gabe BC:
Yeah. I wonder when that happen, when we run out of the CRT monitors, or the Dan Flavin light tubes, what are we going to do? I mean, it’s still, we still want to be able to show these works and put them into exhibitions that are based on certain themes.
Morgan Kessler:
Well, as an artist, how would you feel if your piece was shown just as documentation?
Gabe BC:
Right. I mean, it’s not the same experience for sure, especially for some sculptures or installations. But at the same time, there’s a certain amount of access that it gives to people that don’t necessarily have the ability to come to the museum too. So, I think there’s a trade off there for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It’s a really interesting debate. And so yeah, I also find it really interesting this idea that there’s an end date to the artworks. Have you dealt with any artists that are saying, when you can’t preserve this anymore, just let it go.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. Yes.
Gabe BC:
And what kind of works-
Morgan Kessler:
Not very many, very few. I mean, we have some film works that they don’t ever want digitized. And we do have the Masters but kind of, once it’s gone, it’s gone.
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
Well, and so is that hard for a museum that’s acquiring a piece to let it go in that way? If you spend a bunch of money on acquiring this piece, and now you’re going to say, okay, well I guess that’s it. That’s the end of the piece.
Morgan Kessler:
It’s hard for me.
Gabe BC:
Yeah. Do you ever like-
Morgan Kessler:
I’m a thrifty person though.
Gabe BC:
Do you ever fall in love with the works that you’re preserving?
Morgan Kessler:
There are definitely some that I really like yeah.
Gabe BC:
And what specifically resonates with you about these works? Is it that you spend so much time looking at them or is it that you feel like you-
Morgan Kessler:
The time that you spend looking at them can definitely distance you-
Gabe BC:
Really?
Morgan Kessler:
Oh, my goodness, yeah. Especially since you’re not trying, at least for me, I don’t watch an artwork that’s coming in for the content, I’m looking for something else.
Gabe BC:
Oh, wow. That’s interesting.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
And you’re just looking for errors basically, or issues.
Morgan Kessler:
Yes. And I’m looking from a, and since I have such a production background, I do know what the highest quality should look like, you know. So if I see something that I think the artist might want to fix, which is why I spent a lot of time pointing out typos or just questions, you know. Sometimes they come in and they’re interlaced, and I say, “Do we have the ability to de interlace these if it looks better on the monitors?” And in one case, this artist Jennifer West said, “Let me look at it first.”
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
I said, “Oh, of course. Yeah. I understand that.” So then I sent her what they would look like. And she said, “Okay, those look fine.” And so in this case, it was great because then I could put those copies in our storage system and say, “These have been approved by the artist.”
Gabe BC:
So yeah, it’s almost like the artist has re-sign off on the piece after looking at them.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. And you know, it’s their babies. I don’t want to make mistakes in their babies, I want to make sure that they’re happy with how it looks.
Gabe BC:
So I saw recently you were working with pieces that were done on an old Macintosh, like an old Macintosh classic. And how do you deal with that? I mean, like, do you use emulators to kind of bring those pieces back to life? You know, can you tell us a little bit about that technology?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, this one’s very interesting. This was for floppy disks that I don’t think anyone had seen. It came in as part of a big gift. And I think they just got put in the cabinet and no one ever looked at them.
Gabe BC:
Wow.
Morgan Kessler:
So I was able to get the emulator up and running and did like a video capture so that we can at least see what it looks like when it’s working. And I think one thing that’s also sort of difficult about the museum world is that some of these are deeds of gifts, so we don’t actually have a license to show them.
Gabe BC:
And what were the specific works that you were emulating?
Morgan Kessler:
The artist was called Coil. And it was a, pictures of a longhorn beetle, I think it was called. And so then now it’s a whole other question, if we actually want to show this. Showing something on an emulator is not very stable. You would have to figure out another way to actually show it.
Gabe BC:
Would you show it on an old Macintosh? Like, would you actually go back and find one that works?
Morgan Kessler:
No way, ever.
Gabe BC:
Why not?
Morgan Kessler:
The patrons are like, on a mission to destroy whatever technology you’ve put in the museum. I can’t even tell you the amount of iPads that somehow get to camera mode. It’s just, especially kids, they come on a field trip, they’re bored. They’re just messing around with the technology. They would destroy that computer.
Gabe BC:
Wow.
Morgan Kessler:
Within the first day. I am certain of it.
Gabe BC:
That’s funny. So you just use that, the emulator and then you would eventually migrate it to somewhat of, some new system?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. Then it would be a question for the curatorial. Is this something you want to spend the money on? And that’s the big, that’s the big question. We can do anything we want, if we have the money to spend on it.
Gabe BC:
So what, just purely the technical question here, what does the emulator call if somebody has like an old floppy disk, and they want to be able to look at it on a new Macintosh? What kind of software are they looking at?
Morgan Kessler:
You know, there’s something called vMac, there is Sheepsaver. You get a little bit dicey because in order to run those, you need to have what’s called the ROM of the computer. So you need to also find these particular, kind of like a serial number for an actual old computer. So it’s, technically you’re not supposed to do that, but it’s the only way you can do it if you want to find these floppy disks.
Gabe BC:
And your newest piece that you’re working on, is the Jennifer Steinkamp piece. Is that correct?
Morgan Kessler:
Yes. And we haven’t started that one went completely yet, but it’s going to be in installed soon. So, it’s really trying to take the initiative when something is going to be installed to say, “Oh, okay, do we want to bring this up to date in terms of technology? And can we store it? How can we get all the assets we need?” Yeah, so that’s our next one we’re going to be working on.
Gabe BC:
And what specifically do you need for that piece? Like, is there a camera tracking system? Is there a different kind of computer that’s necessary for it?
Morgan Kessler:
No. Right now, I think it’s using some MaxMSP patches to run. But it’s basically a bunch of videos that will run all around in the space.
Gabe BC:
I see. Okay, so it’s projection based? Is it one of the like tree pieces kind of?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. Kind of like that, yeah.
Gabe BC:
Nice. That’s great. So you get ready ahead of time, you’d ask her the necessary questions, and then you know when you acquire it, that you can have all this stuff ready to go and backed up for the future?
Morgan Kessler:
Well, this is interesting because we already own it. So we do own it, but it’s on a series of DVDs and it’s already at the point where we can now say, “Do you still have access to these files? Could we now get uncompressed?” Because we have that ability.
Gabe BC:
Okay. Great. So yeah, I guess it really makes a big difference to be able to talk to the artists while they’re still around. Make sure-
Morgan Kessler:
[inaudible 00:33:14].
Gabe BC:
Yeah, so I guess some of the stuff from the 60s and 70s might be difficult to preserve now, but as long as you have these facilities in place now you can plan ahead.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
Have there been any major disasters that you’ve encountered?
Morgan Kessler:
Oh, well, Gabe, it’s so funny you mentioned that.
Gabe BC:
Why? I mean, I don’t know what you’re talking about Morgan.
Morgan Kessler:
We were approached by the art and tech lab at LACMA to preserve your piece, which was a very nice piece monument on a Mac Mini. And we said “Oh, it’s really important that you at least get a backup Mac Mini.” Right?
Gabe BC:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Morgan Kessler:
Because you don’t want it in one place. So I took that Mac Mini, and of course, I cloned the brand new blank Mac Mini to your artwork computer, just total you know, crazy mistake, and it really just shows you how quickly digital media can just be erased.
Gabe BC:
Yeah, I remember I got a call from Joel I think, who is the director of the Art and Technology Lab. And he was like, “I’m so sorry. I don’t know how this happened. But we accidentally copied the blank hard drive over your piece.” And I was like, “Wow.” You know, I mean, it’s just, it’s such an important conversation to have about this very thing about preservation, right? Luckily, I had a backup of the piece.
Morgan Kessler:
I know.
Gabe BC:
But I was just like-
Morgan Kessler:
And it’s far enough away that I don’t feel like vomiting anymore when I think about it.
Gabe BC:
Thank you for sharing the story at least. I think it’s a great story.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. So it can happen so fast. So fast.
Gabe BC:
Yeah.
Morgan Kessler:
And I was very lucky that Joel was you know, you and Joel were not angry. No one tried to get me fired.
Gabe BC:
No, I mean, this stuff happens with any kind of digital art piece. I’ve had so many pieces just kind degrade over time, where have to keep working on them. It’s almost like as an artist, you spend just as much, the same amount of time restoring and updating your work as you do making the work in the first place. So it’s like an added amount of, an added job that you have to take on.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. From that now we have some new protocols that I designed. If anything’s going to be cloned like that, you need two sets of eyes. It’s like, this is all kind of a new world so, you learn the most from your mistakes, and.
Gabe BC:
It’s a learning experience. Yeah it’s moving on.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. Yeah.
Gabe BC:
I always think of this quote by the artist Rafael Lozano-Hemmer. He says, “Do not trust anyone who has a method for the preservation of media art.” Do you agree with that quote? Or do you actually have methods as somebody who does this professionally?
Morgan Kessler:
Well, I would agree in that. If someone says they have a method that’s going to last in perpetuity, they’re a fool.
Gabe BC:
Right.
Morgan Kessler:
You know, unless the method is to do the work every year. I mean, I guess that could be your method that you need to go into it. But even then, it’s not going to last forever.
Gabe BC:
Yeah. Yeah, it’s such a strange thing to plan for something to end, you know. You’re really planning for the end.
Morgan Kessler:
I mean, it’s funny, my daughter is three and I like to tell people that her baby photos are so precious. What I do to keep them is I print them out. Because I’m worried that if I keep them digitally, they won’t be around when she’s an adult.
Gabe BC:
Yeah. And so many of us keep all of our memories digitally now. We don’t even think about the physicality of them, right?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
And I would look at photos much more if they were printed out in a shoe box than scrolling through those 10,000 photos I have on my phone each day.
Morgan Kessler:
Exactly, exactly. And I think about you know, the computer I had 10 years ago, every once in a while I think, oh, I should boot that up and see what’s on there. I think, oh god, no, I don’t want to deal with that right now. Who knows if that thing is even going to boot up? I’m happier with the idea that maybe it still works. I just won’t test it.
Gabe BC:
That could be part of your job, right? The fact that you have to test things constantly to make sure that they still work.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah.
Gabe BC:
Morgan, this has been super interesting. Thank you so much for joining me. Before we go, I have some rapid fire questions for you. So we do this at the end of every podcast here on State of the Art. These are questions that are not necessarily related to what you do at all. And the important thing is just to answer with the first thing that comes to your mind.
Morgan Kessler:
Okay.
Gabe BC:
So, don’t you know, don’t overthink it, just the first thing. So the first question is, if a movie was made of your life, what genre would it be and who would play you?
Morgan Kessler:
You know what’s so funny? I just think like a Muriel’s Wedding kind of thing.
Gabe BC:
What? About art conservation?
Morgan Kessler:
No. Just about my life. Something sort of quirky.
Gabe BC:
And who would play you?
Morgan Kessler:
I’d love Toni Collette. Sure, she’s great.
Gabe BC:
Okay, that’s great. That makes total sense. So let’s say we finish this interview right now and you step outside of the office and find a lottery ticket that ends up with $10 million. What would you do with it?
Morgan Kessler:
Buy a big house.
Gabe BC:
Would you fill it with media art?
Morgan Kessler:
No, I actually like to knit and do fused glass.
Gabe BC:
Ha! That’s interesting. Do collect artwork yourself?
Morgan Kessler:
I have a very nice collection of original clown paintings.
Gabe BC:
What? Wow, we didn’t get into that at all. Just briefly, where does that come from?
Morgan Kessler:
I found this great one at an estate sale and it’s just this very scary clown dressed up with vegetables. It’s great. So it started-
Gabe BC:
Wait, wait. You found a picture of a clown dressed up with vegetables?
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah, we call him Old Carradice.
Gabe BC:
Okay. I feel like we need you on entirely different podcast about your clown painting. But, how many clown paintings do you have now?
Morgan Kessler:
We’ve got four, and I’m really trying to keep them to just originals not print.
Gabe BC:
Okay, yeah, keep the clowns honest and pure, right?
Morgan Kessler:
Come on. Got to keep their value up.
Gabe BC:
Well, maybe one day you can get like a Paul McCarthy video art piece where he’s playing a clown too. I know he’s done some of those, to go with your clown collection. That’s incredible. Okay, last question here, last rapid fire question. If you were on a desert island, this is the old question, right? And you could only bring one book with you to read for the rest of time, what would that book be and why?
Morgan Kessler:
Gosh. It’s some sort of collection of short stories. I just love short stories, and they would keep me interested.
Gabe BC:
Yeah, that makes sense too. Is there a particular author that you would like? Or?
Morgan Kessler:
I used to love the short stories of Kurt Vonnegut.
Gabe BC:
Yeah.
Morgan Kessler:
Or like a Miranda July.
Gabe BC:
Yeah, I love Miranda July. That’d be great.
Morgan Kessler:
Yeah. I thought-
Gabe BC:
Good, perfect desert island reading. They should put that on the back of her books. Morgan, thanks so much for joining me again. It’s been really interesting to talk to you about time based media art and the preservation of time based media art. Just real quick, I heard that you have a colloquium coming up. When is that taking place?
Morgan Kessler:
Yes. Joey and I and the time based media committee are hoping to put together a symposium probably at LACMA in April. So stay tuned. We would like to get artists and studios and people working with this media because, Los Angeles is kind of underrepresented in this preservation world and we have so many resources so, we thought it’d be a really great opportunity.
Gabe BC:
Fantastic. So stay tuned for that. That’s happening in April. And thanks again, Morgan. Great to talk to you.
Morgan Kessler:
Thank you.
Gabe BC:
Thanks so much for listening today. This is Gabe Barcia-Colombo for the State of the Art podcast. State of the Art is actually created by Ethan Appleby. We have a great fantastic producer named Vanessa Wilson. And our audio specialists slash miracle waveform master is Weston Stevens. So stay tuned for next week. We’re going to have another amazing guest. I’m not going to tell you who it is quite yet, but I promise it will be worth it.